How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

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PerCo
PerCo's picture
How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

Hi all,

Some of you know me, some of you don't. I know a lot of people have tried to bring gaming to the next level here in Nam. I myself tried to and to be completely honest completely failed. People have a lot of good intention but it always ends up being two or three people pulling all the weight of this gaming community. I am not one of them before you start flaming my ass. Basically if you are ready to get off your ass and do something about gaming in this country, then here is your chance. Hopefully this post will help you towards what has been tried in the past, when did not work, what are the challenges and what people are most likely to help you in your endeavour. These are not people you should joke with or try to impress. Comments with nothing positive to provide to this discussion or comments with no concrete facts meaning to bolster your epeen such as " I am working on a server gais, its gonna be online soon, add me on facebook" will be deleted on sight. This is not meant to be a window into you feeling better about yourself. This is to help the few people that really want to see change and growth in the minuscule gaming community that we have.

What has been done?

Namlan - everyone knows that there is this event every year. It is basically a large lan, with very few prizes and very little sponsorship. It regularly makes a loss every year that a few dedicated people compensate for.

WCG - This has been tried. Personally, I do not think it is a step in the right direction.

Swakop Lan - Was hosted for one year, not hosted in 2013

NESA - Non-profit for the growth of e-sports, currently dissolved. We heard rumors of a revival but nothing yet.

What does not work?

Low gaming population: Already with low population, the % of gamers is very low. Too low, for such an addictive sport, it is very rare to find a gamer anywhere. Also given that most people are poor in the country - Namibia is 6th on the misery ladder - and large income equalities, gaming is not for everyone. It is currently only available to a certain class of people. It is often said that gaming is the cheapest form of entertainment. WoW is a prime example. WoW is possibly the most cost effective means of entertainment in the world. You can play wow for a month at a the same cost of six movie theatre tickets, including internet. The issue we have in namibia is that most people dont have money to go to the theatre, or any form of disposable income. That is something we as a community cannot control. Hopefully this will become better in time.

Lack of dedication to the local scene: The gamers we do have are very rarely involved with the local scene, including namlan, where last year no one was sure we would make the numbers until the last minute.

No moneyz: Lack of sponsors is huge.

What do we do now?

I think mostly NESA and sometimes Namlan want to achieve too much in a few steps. It just cannot be done. We talk about community but this site is run by one guy. And he kinda forced the rest of us to come post here - not really but he keeps bringing it up at dinner. We all want great things for the local scene but maize doesnt grow out of shit immediately. You need to add earth to the shit, till it,etc - Im really not good at this, never planted anythign in my life. We need a community before growing a community. Right now, we are about 5 guys. If you want to do your part, join us - not the clan, join our events, join the teamspeak server, join the forums, post, disicuss, attend, be part of gaming, be part of gaming namibia.

Who to contact on the forums?

Myself, drop me a PM
foams, drop him a nuke.

As always good things take time.

BaalRules_5710
BaalRules_5710's picture
Re: How the f*** do we make gaming work in this country?

:clap: I loled at he keeps bringing it up at dinner

distort
distort's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

Yeah I think if the community would just start to grow and be more active on NGC it'll be a start. When we get populated it would be no problem to create event that actually attract interest. People feel alienated from one another thus they choose to stay at home and play online.

The gaming era changed from massive lan events to more online events. Most people find it easier to just play games from the comfort of their home. Simply put, gamers have grew tired and lazy, its only the new arising gamers aged 14-18 that is keen to join a lan.

Overseas they have first class internet and games are being designed to be more accessible online (steam, online only (D3), no lan mode etc.)

This is killing local lan events (even overseas).

I lol'd at:

Quote:
Who to contact on the forums?

Myself, drop me a PM
foams, drop him a nuke.

Reaper208
Reaper208's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I would gladly join any LAN event. Maybe I could even convince my friends. We sometimes have a small LAN at my house but the most people we ever had at one LAN was 14 and we quickly grew tired of those small LANS. So if we could host a LAN of more than 20 people every 3 months. You can count us in.

Reaper208
Reaper208's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I think whats NAMLAN lacks and what would explain the lack of gamers, is advertising. You need to print some kind of notice and hang it up in all the schools. Especially DHPS, DSSW and St. Pauls. I never knew there was a Namlan last year.

EthyzZ
EthyzZ's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

Online advertising doesn't mean shit if it's not hitting the target market. Like some guy above me said, posters, hang em up at schools/unis/malls/anywhere that our target demographic would go to hang out.

Facebook means nothing unless you pump some money into advertising and promoting posts. This forum means even less.

If any of you guys want to have any kind of an attendance rate for NL'13, you're going to have to take a tactical business-style advertising approach.

As a friend of mine told me, former organizations like NESA make it un-cool to game. I'm absolutely not flaming anybody here, but the fact remains that new gamers are very intimidated by organizations, unless the org actively attempts to take on a chilled, beginner-friendly approach. Go to OC/RAGE. See how they do it. See why their events continue to draw THOUSANDS of visitors annually. Of course cashflow is always going to be an issue, but this is why the group must FIRST work on building a following, and THEN begin hosting events.

A while back, we actually had a semi-regular community. Then we had to go and fuck it up the ass.

Why the flying fuck am I posting... this is common knowledge.

PerCo
PerCo's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I was an advocate of not using newspapers and the mainstream media for advertising Namlan. Maybe posters and flyers might work. I dunno, I always thought gamers would seek other gamers, maybe im wrong.

PotencY
PotencY's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I think, in my humble insignificant opinion, starting out small is the best starting point. One can go on and on about getting a huge LAN organised after advertising over whatever media available out there, but if getting even a small get together of about 5 guys is too much of a hassle, it's not gonna be worth much

Reaper, the small LANs you say you host sounds cool. If we can get something like that goin, just to gain momentum, it's gonna be a good starting point.

I would even try and host, but my place it a bit too small. But if I hear of a LAN hosted somewhere, even if I don't know the people, I'm there at a moment's notice (once I get my car fixed)..

PerCo
PerCo's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I am saying that LANs although good in concept is kinda dying. We should focus on more online things to do. Like the forum, the joining together to play games, clan matches etc. I think that is cheaper and easier to organize. We all join together and build a community online.

foamy
foamy's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

These are all good points guys, keep them coming. I will keep them in mind, specially the FB advertising (Once I get the funds)

I think both LANs and Online cater to different audiences and some people like both (specially those that grew up with it). Online is fun, but nothing beats a 10man+ LAN on CoD2 and War3 custom maps and the socializing aspect tops it off.

Online is definitely getting larger and game devs are making it easier for people to play with their friends online and some making it a successful spectator sport (Starcraft 2, LoL, DotA 2). A majority of Namibia's 'serious' gamers play online as that is the best way to improve and play consistently with a larger group of people. Battlefield 3 (soon 4), Starcraft 2, DotA2, LoL - These are the games I have seen most Namibians talk about. Some play Trackmania, HoN and CoD[insert number here]

On these topics:
Namlan - Always looking for sponsors to make this LAN bigger and better. If you know someone who would be seriously interested in sponsoring something, pop me a PM.
WCG - They went really quiet, I hope they can pull through and grow gaming in Namibia
Swakop Lan - Looking forward to one being hosted again this year, was great last year.
NESA - Announcements to be made soon hopefully regarding this

PotencY
PotencY's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I can appreciate the appeal of online gaming, but it will never beat a LAN. the social interaction of a LAN is about half the fun of the actual LAN. It seems like a better place to start off with for me.

I'd be much more interested in meeting a bunch of gamers at some open hall as apposed to meeting them in a lobby room or on teamspeak... (thought I still would not mind the latter)

BaalRules_5710
BaalRules_5710's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I feel that LANs should be kept to a small number where we are sure to keep them coming back like the Arrebusch/Swakop LAN as foams says they are awesome from a playing/socializing point of view. I think NAMLAN keeps the competitive momentum in mind also. 2 to 3 lans including namlan a year is a good number but we should focus on making it happen online get everyone connected with each other and organize league/friendly matches even if you don't play the games well like CS COD DOTA LOL on a regular basis.

I think if we can make that happen the community will progress naturally without us having to do much except maintain it...

my 2c :think:

ObiTuarY
ObiTuarY's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

yah, well, i read this and its touching, didnt realy know of u guys, been gaming from 7 year old, only started online since i got internet, 23 now.. :) lol... anyways i hope to support u guys in ways of playing together in the future allot... my first tournament in namibia now, NESA dota2 tournament 2013... being fun so far playing with u guys, playing for Tard Squad.lolz... then there actualy is gamers in namibia,,,, damn we people are rare people here.... nice meeting all...... good luck ill do my best from this side then... greetings from tsumeb

Haterade
Haterade's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

Get the infrastructure right, and everything will else will follow. It's hard to game in this country when you have unstable internet connections, and ISPs that refuse to peer with each other. LANs are becoming more and more pointless with the lack of proper LAN support in games (DotA2 fanboys shhh) nowadays, and people who are too lazy (and shy) to pack up their PCs and get out of their comfy chairs. Furthermore, LANs aren't easy or cheap to organise, anyone who suggests that we "organise more LANs" should try organising one.

PotencY
PotencY's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

If it wern't for the fact that my land lords can be a bit iffy and that there is not a lot of parking where I live, I'd just as well do one here. I can cater for about 5 people in total with my flat as it is now. And it doesn't have to be that expensive does it? What would make you say otherwise Haterade?

VirtuaStig
VirtuaStig's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I agree with "PerCo", I would prefer not to drag my PC from my home to a LAN, Online is way better and we can still meet on TS. but if we had an event that has internet access then I'll bring my PC sure, Competitive online play...
I joined this community after seeing the news paper post bout the Dota 2 tournament, before that I did not even know about this site.
1. I think exposure is not good enough - do we advertise on Facebook or do we have an Facebook site taking you here
2. I sometimes feel that dragging my PC to a LAN or any event for that matter and all we play are games I don't really care about. (COD - overrated) - do we know what the community wants to play or has access too.
3. As for sponsors - well not really my area of expertise but have some ideas (pm me to discuss)
4. Dedication - I would love to become a dedicated member to events or anything in the like, but unless the community helps as in all of us,otherwise whats the point, like BF3 Namibians had no where to play, but had the community helped out we could easily have rented our own servers.
5. Every household you walk into has a PC worth at least N$ 9000 we just need to find a way to reach them all.
These are strictly my views, let the barbeque begin...KOM ONS BRAAI

Draconam
Draconam's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

There is a upcoming lan 1st to 3rd November with Internet Access.(check out Events)
I rented and still rent a BF3 server, not getting interest from Namibian community though. I am in the process of acquiring a server we can set up in WHK for hosting our games for Namibians. Give me a shout and I can set You up with all details. :)

VirtuaStig
VirtuaStig's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

Hey Draconam

Thx for the reply, but thats my point.
1. How many people know about our servers that we rent
2. Why should you be the only one paying to rent a server, like ok i pre-ordered BF4 and will definitely help with payment on that aspect should you want to rent a server there, but 2 out of the whole community, not worth it.
3. and again going to that LAN I do not play COD - it's for kids my daughter age 6 kicks but in that game, DOTA - not my kind of game, Starcraft II - Cool, but do not own the game, what about battlefield, arma, dayz. - what does the comunity play, or what are we interested in playing.

FYI - BF3 Epic... Good choice there Draconam

Draconam
Draconam's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

At the LAN the guys can play any games they want. Games mentioned is only for prizes. Bring your daughter with, my kids also gonna be there. We have extra PC's there. Accommodation available for reasonable prices.

BF3 Server : http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/servers/show/pc/6d04bf77-3a0c-49a8-a30b-9aca0f5861b6/Usakos-Cyber-Zone/

Anybody that wants to try to get it active, let me know and we can talk admin rights.

The idea of the LAN is to get to know all the gamers, have a nice time and see what other people plays. Only after that gaming will start to grow. I want this LAN to be full of fun. Extra prizes after 2nd Place will be going into lucky draws.

Hope to see everyone there.

Mantis
Mantis's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

Once the details for the LAN is confirmed 100%. I can try to get this radio advertised on 1 FM.

PotencY
PotencY's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

you knwo someone there, or isit a paid advert?

Mantis
Mantis's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I know a friend that works there. Im sure they'll spread the news without any fees. I mean its a big event

cyberion1985
cyberion1985's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

OMG, I am to old for this :problem:

I have pointed out all these things before in my posts that I wrote (which only like a few people READ) and kindly pointed out that starting a LAN or dedicated people is actually not the problem but the people themselves. In Namibia you get many people working against each other instead of with each other. One CLAN doesn't like the other, One race doesn't like the other, One person doesn't like the other and so on... It's something like in highschool , just more premature and without clubs...

Let me bring you the core idea of a LAN : You, and your friends meet up with your PC's and hook them up to a network, start playing your favorite games against each other ; Make teams, fight 1 on 1, Team up and play against a wicked evil AI, have a good time and have fun, eat random things and share and discuss the wonderful world of computer gaming, the IT world or anything else. Who is the best player ? Who was the best team ? Let's watch that replay ONE MORE TIME... Then a nice braai to pick up the excitement until the final battles begin to rage. . . you get the idea.

Local LANS should be about participation, and prizes of cause. People should practice for the games to make it competitive OR you bring a number of "unknown free" games to the LAN so everyone needs to get the skills at the LAN. Or you promote these free games before the LAN starts and get everyone to download and to play them, so that they can practice. Audience : For everyone, for fun

Hardcore Competitive Online LAN Hybrid LANS on the other hand are all about skill and being the best. Here you get the hardcore gamers that want to show of their skills and aim for a participation of the WCG. If a HCO gamer comes to a casual LAN, they find themselves bored and unchallanged... That's why they will chose not to participate ; They say, "what's the point of playing THIS LAME game on the LAN when it's not even on the WCG list ?! " They are right.

You need to have LANS for both types of gamers. You also need to have these regularly. The hardcore gamers should get things like medals or trophies and cash prizes the casual gamers should get item prizes like games and PC equipment - something that will aid them into becoming a hardcore gamer.

Anyhow before I start to QQ and rage flame, let me stop here as I am repeating myself. My original post about this is out there .... somewhere

foamy
foamy's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I believe it was this thread: http://www.gamingnamibia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=430

cyberion1985 wrote:
I estimate being EthyzZ, is a state of mind - and that's theoretically impossible.

. . .So hopefully, at the SKW LAN, it will be filled with happy friendly Gamers that all get along and play fair and have fun. I would enjoy seeing a full house for that LAN and future LANS and of cause representatives from most clans.

As far as LAN's are concerned, I still do believe it's better to hold official-strict lans, unofficial-casual lans and private invite only lans.

Official Strict LANS
Here real competitions for prizes will be held. As will be the fight for domination of who is the best player and the best CLAN. LANS are to the point and rules dominate the day. Matches are timed based and if your team is not there at the right time you will be penalized or disqualified. Rules follow international scopes of competitive gaming. All that counts here is to win, scores and overall points.

Unofficial-casual LANS
Here fun is the most important factor. You come when the LAN starts, set up your PC - take your time. Look around and talk and get to know people. Laugh about other peoples towers that look like pure circuity. You join games you enjoy and host games you want to play. Custom maps will dominate this realm, as will be the aim to have as much fun as possible. Team based games as well as free for all "just for fun" sessions will continue throughout the day. In the evening or during luchtime, people shall feast at a braai or pizza. Questions like "who the faq is coping from me, I cant play" and the standard "what's your computer name" will travel across the hall. Some of the community members shall indulge in drinking a few alcoholic beverages.Others will host "talk & smoke sessions" after every game and discuss who failed the most and who was imba once again.

Private LANS
This is where a few folks will join up to play a few games. Usually, a few set of games are played that are usually not played a lot at bigger LANs. Maybe one clan will settle a score with another clan - a challenge of a few friends. These LANS are usually invite only and only a limited amount of people attend. LANs like this are more quiet and calm than the other LANs and are mostly held at houses and offer sleep-over capabilities. However, most of these LANS are short and take up to 15 hours. File sharing is large at these LANS - A time for people to show off their collections of Disney movies and discuss nifty Teletubby replays.

cyberion1985 wrote:
...

Finally you said something, that is in my range of discussion for this topic : " Too many rules, too much politics, too small community. Welcome to Nambia. " . In my opinion, it's that attitude and mind set that drags the scene into the ground and nothing else. People simply can't grow up and look forward. And it's called NAMIBIA and not Nambia (never heard of that name). If the people don't want it, then nothing will come right. It's not the organization of LANS and rules that is the problem, but the people that can't adapt to them.

LANs are supposed to happen naturally ? LOL I don't know why I am even responding to that... you mean LANs just fall out of the sky and gamers are like caveman or what ? How will that work ? I think you should start planning a LAN on your own and see how it will turn out.

http://www.gamingnamibia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=430&start=20

PotencY
PotencY's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

Let us not go over the darker times of the aforementioned thread...

moving on...

cyberion1985 wrote:
OMG, I am to old for this :problem:

I have pointed out all these things before in my posts that I wrote (which only like a few people READ) and kindly pointed out that starting a LAN or dedicated people is actually not the problem but the people themselves. In Namibia you get many people working against each other instead of with each other. One CLAN doesn't like the other, One race doesn't like the other, One person doesn't like the other and so on... It's something like in highschool , just more premature and without clubs...

Let me bring you the core idea of a LAN : You, and your friends meet up with your PC's and hook them up to a network, start playing your favorite games against each other ; Make teams, fight 1 on 1, Team up and play against a wicked evil AI, have a good time and have fun, eat random things and share and discuss the wonderful world of computer gaming, the IT world or anything else. Who is the best player ? Who was the best team ? Let's watch that replay ONE MORE TIME... Then a nice braai to pick up the excitement until the final battles begin to rage. . . you get the idea.

Local LANS should be about participation, and prizes of cause. People should practice for the games to make it competitive OR you bring a number of "unknown free" games to the LAN so everyone needs to get the skills at the LAN. Or you promote these free games before the LAN starts and get everyone to download and to play them, so that they can practice. Audience : For everyone, for fun

Hardcore Competitive Online LAN Hybrid LANS on the other hand are all about skill and being the best. Here you get the hardcore gamers that want to show of their skills and aim for a participation of the WCG. If a HCO gamer comes to a casual LAN, they find themselves bored and unchallanged... That's why they will chose not to participate ; They say, "what's the point of playing THIS LAME game on the LAN when it's not even on the WCG list ?! " They are right.

You need to have LANS for both types of gamers. You also need to have these regularly. The hardcore gamers should get things like medals or trophies and cash prizes the casual gamers should get item prizes like games and PC equipment - something that will aid them into becoming a hardcore gamer.

Anyhow before I start to QQ and rage flame, let me stop here as I am repeating myself. My original post about this is out there .... somewhere

I agree with Cyberion on his post. LANs should not be taking tooooo seriously. The only reason I would ever go to one is to have fun. Prizes are always nice, but they should not be the focus point of it all. I want to go to a LAN to have fun and enjoy myself, talk smack with other gamers, feel ashamed of what a n00b I am, enjoy the few moment of pure pwnage....

I greatly appreciate the amount of effort Draconam has put into the Usakos LAN, and if the rest of us even do 1% of that on our own, I'd think we're set to give gaming in Namibia a great jumpstart

cyberion1985
cyberion1985's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

Moving on is a good idea, but you can't hide the facts and you definitely can't forget the things that are on the table or just paint over them. Unless these things are addressed and a solution is provided, you will have no movement and the curse will go on. The majority of people doesn't like addressing them, as they are conflict and most people like to avoid conflict - Especially in Namibia. Gamers are an complicated breed :geek: They hold grudges beyond death...

PotencY wrote:
I greatly appreciate the amount of effort Draconam has put into the Usakos LAN, and if the rest of us even do 1% of that on our own, I'd think we're set to give gaming in Namibia a great jumpstart

:thumbup:

Mantis
Mantis's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

A fact that has made "LANNING" such a issue now days, is because basically all of the games we play, is now ONLINE ONLY and no more local LAN options. Unless you have an internet connection strong enough to support your friends on your internet line.

Lan Events can be made more popular now if ADSL lines are present and Gaming Servers are Hosted/Rented. Makes everthing so much more easier for gamers to come together and play they games they enjoy most for friendly or competition.

Its for Namibian Gamers to come together, share resources or contacts and get together to help build up gaming.
For example, Gaming in S.A. is HUUUGGGEEE! When you compare S.A. Gaming to Nam Gaming. Look at Telkom DGL - Do Gaming League.

We can achieve that =D! If this Usakos Lan Event leaves a awesome mark in Namibian history, we can only look forward from there on out.

PotencY
PotencY's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

With the sheer population difference, it would be tough to compare SA and NAM, in any capacity. But even with that what we have here, we can make do with. I don't see any reason why. With enough effort anything could be possible. Except teleportation. Teleportation is a bit tough to crack

cyberion1985
cyberion1985's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

Sigh...I was having discussion with myself, me and I and and all my other superficial charming alternate personalities. The thing that you all forgot is the following (and please excuse my absolute negative perspective; unfortunately, this is the reality) : People will always try to destroy you - No matter how hard you try and how far you go. There will always be people that are set out to crush you. That's what they do. In this small community, this just works for them - and quite frankly it's easy.

One guy comes along and tries to improve and bring forward Namibian Gaming... A few individuals go against it and after months or a year, the guy is devastated and leaves the scene. The next guy thinks : "Hey, where is Namibian Gaming" and ventures off jolly with dedication, hope, enthusiasm and determination only to one day hit a wall once again. Lans go on, time passes by ... Oh here comes the next one, that thinks HE can make the difference. And it goes on and on and on and on and on and on , oh look 2013 - Damn ! time flies by like juicy pieces of flesh at a suicide bombing...

I don't know the number of gamers would actually make a difference... Like i said, you need to find the people - The problem individuals and sort out the issues first and try to get people working with each other. And that, my fellow comrades is the most difficult part. Talk to each CLAN leader, or the other so called "Namibian Gaming Communities" leaders. Tell them what you want from them and offer them something in return.

GEEZAS , why do I always end up writing so much on these topics ? ... FML

Mantis
Mantis's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

@cyberion1985

I understand what your talking about, yes you do get people which do not believe in this and would like to see the one's trying, to fail. Maybe this push forward works, maybe it does not. Who knows ?

Now if the few Nam Gamers that are still active in gaming was to promote gaming and make it awesome! Things would change and draw attention. The Usakos LAN has been made possible by DraconamCZ which did/is/are going to put in a lot of effort :clap: , I am supporting him and provided him with S.A. contacts/Sponsorship details in everyway possible.

People that dislike the fact of gaming in Namibia? Push them aside and work with the people which are willing to help us improve the gaming scene in Namibia.

Less Negativity, More Awesometivity I always say :wave: :thumbup: :D

MaVeTh
MaVeTh's picture
Re: How the hell do we make gaming work in this country?

I'd love to see a Namibian DGL type of thing, and then end it off with NamLAN at the end of the year.

The community feels too small to have regular LANs throughout the year. Windhoek has a handful of people, Swakop/Walvis has a handful of people and then there is everywhere in between with a handful of people. Combine them all and you have a decent enough amount of gamers for Namibias standards (because it's so small I mean, not being rude. :P ), but to get all of them from all over to one central place more than twice, or even once a year is pretty tough. That's why I think i'd be best to build a proper online community, with some real proper advertising for a league and then I think the turnout at the end of the year will be really nice. Best thing this community has going is word of mouth at the moment, and then thank goodness for this forum and Facebook. But I'm sure you could get a whole lot more participants from schools and stuff. But the workload involved for all of this is too much for just volunteers who already have work or school responsibility.

mmogogirl
mmogogirl's picture
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